Finding Freedom in Minimalism



This is a re-released episode from the archives.  This interview originally aired June 6, 2016.


Our guest today is Erin Boyle, the blogger behind Reading My Tea Leaves and author of  the book "Simple Matters: Living With Less and Ending Up With More ".  It's a gorgeously photographed and written book  and its focus is on the joys of living with simple pleasures in a small Brooklyn apartment that Erin shares with her husband and young child.  We cover all kinds of aesthetics on the podcast and have celebrated both maximalist and minimalist styles, and everything in between.   Today, we think you'll be delighted to hear about Erin's very pared down, minimalist style that comes from a place of true happiness.  We love that, for her, simple living is not about deprivation but about the beauty she sees in everyday ordinary things.



ERIN BOYLE'S APARTMENT (all photos from Erin Boyle/Reading My Tea Leaves).



Zandra Zuraw 0:02
Hello, and welcome to the style matters podcast brought to you by little yellow couch. I'm Zandra, your host, and I am so glad you're here. Now you may have heard that we're currently on break from producing new episodes of the podcast. But that doesn't mean that there isn't interior design happiness to be had right here. for the month of August, we are releasing some of the best episodes from the archives, which in case you didn't know, goes back five years. Yes, that's right. Five years of amazing interviews. So there's a good chance that you've missed these particular gems and I want to make sure that you continue to get tons of inspiration right through the summer. We will be back with all new episodes starting September 7. And a quick note for the first three years of the podcast I had a co host the lovely and talented Karen grant, so you'll hear her voice Along with mine and our guests and one other thing, have you taken our quiz, we have designed it based on the three things that we've found to be holding most people back in their efforts to create what they would consider to be their dream homes. So don't you want to know which of these three mistakes you're making in your home? Once you take the quiz, I will send you some help and exercises targeted at your specific quiz results right to your inbox. They're meant to be a quickstart guide to just help you designing a home that's truly aligned with who you are. To take the quiz go to little yellow couch calm and you'll see the quiz button up at the top. Before we get going. Here's a word from our sponsor. Now this is a new one for the style matters podcast because it's a beauty company. But because I really believe in taking the time to take care of yourself and do incorporate some self care rituals or routines into your Life and make space for them somewhere in your home. I am excited to introduce to you beauty bio beauty bio was founded by Jamie O'Bannon after working for years with her father in a cosmetics lab and she was getting really tired of seeing these big name beauty brands use only the minimal amount of active ingredients that they had to in order to claim clinical results. So she went on a mission to put truth into beauty. And she created beauty bio, and I've now been using to beauty bio products for a little bit. One is this six week retinol system that they call the reversal. And after the first two weeks I am very happy to go out in the world without makeup again, which is saying a lot because I'm approaching 50 now it's not so much that I want to cover up my age. I just want to love the skin I'm in but that means it has to look healthy. So since the reversal thing is making me feel this way right now I cannot wait to see how I feel in another month. The other product I've been using is one of their best sellers. It's a moisturizer called the quench and it honestly feels like the dreamiest coolest lotion that I've ever put on. So please check them out and you will feel what I'm feeling and what I'm seeing in the mirror so go to beauty bio calm that's beauty b e a u t y, bio b i and use the code style matters to get 15% off your first purchase. All right, let's get into today's episode. This one originally aired in June of 2016. Our guest is Aaron Boyle, the blogger behind reading my tea leaves and author of simple matters living with less and ending up with more. It is a gorgeously photographed and written book and its focus is on joys of living with simple pleasures in a small Brooklyn apartment that Aaron shares with her husband and young child. Now you know that we cover all kinds of aesthetics on the podcast and we've celebrated both maximalist and minimalist styles and everything in between. Today, we think you'll be delighted to hear about Aaron's very pared down minimalist style that comes from a place of true happiness. We love that for her simple living is not about giving things up or deprivation, but about the beauty she sees in everyday ordinary things. Let's get started. So your book, simple matters, and our podcast style matters. I love that there's a little intersection there. Yeah, I mean, it's we're talking about, we're talking about I think, all of us home making. In a modern sense, you know, not necessarily way way back when when women did all the grunge work or anything

Erin Boyle 5:00
It's such a complicated term, obviously for those pictures, but it's such an apt term for the kind of things that we're talking about. If we can just get rid of it as a gendered idea, that would be even better.

Zandra Zuraw 5:13
Exactly, exactly. Because the word home making or making a home to me is so beautiful. It's, it's so important. It's a representation and sort of an outward physical representation of who you are. And it is such a nurturing important part of our, our lives as well as children, but as adults to you know, just yeah. So we want to, we want to definitely dive in with your backstory on your childhood, your early years and how sort of how you got to where you are today with some very grounded I think, practical applications to create Home.

Erin Boyle 6:00
Let's see, I guess I actually feel like I have a particularly well I guess I should say, I don't really I'm not terribly into astrological signs but I dabble a tiny bit and you know from everything I've been told I'm a really true cancer in the sense of really being I'm kind of a homebody which doesn't mean that I'm you know, anti social, but just means that I really kind of crave a sense of belonging, I'm in a place and have a real attachment to my, to my home. And I think that's some of that started actually as a pretty young age. When I was seven, my mom and dad bought a very old house on the Connecticut shoreline and proceeded to restore it painstakingly, mostly by themselves. In you know, we can't my sisters and I And my mom camped for the summer while my dad worked on the house.

Zandra Zuraw 7:06
So you were in a tent while they while the house is being worked out, attended, like,

Erin Boyle 7:11
because so of course it was, you know, it's a super old house. So there's all sorts of like lead paint, remediation, and all that kind of stuff. But anyway, you know, moving into this house, at that age just kind of had a real impact on me, I became very attached to the police. And it's kind of been a theme, you know, I wrote my, like graduate school, you know, application essays about, you know, having grown up in that house, and how it formed my interest in my connection to space and connection to history and how the how the spaces how we can use kind of spaces to understand our past and yeah, and you know, I've just been very interested in that and then I did actually, you know, quite a bit of work before. Logging professionally in kind of historic preservation, museum studies and just kind of really interested in material culture and, and kind of the way that human beings make their spaces and always, always have and how that's changed and evolved and what it means for women and what it means for men. And I'm just kind of been interested in all of those questions. So it's kind of a natural leap for me to then write about some of that stuff on my blog, and I don't always take like the most historical approach more about kind of my day to day life. But I think in terms of the way that all of that for my style, my sense of style, someone walked into my house the other day, I should say, and they said that they had grown up going to quicker schools, and that their house from I didn't meet that house and I was like, which I couldn't even really tell who's supposed to be a compliment.
But of course, I took it as one. Thank you very much. So I think you know those kinds of like spare spaces with with you know elements throughout my home that feel like they have a past that came you know a story beyond my own I love having old things in my house which doesn't mean that I want it to be like, you know, shabby chic Bed and Breakfast is not like particularly my style but like a pared down kind of patina vibe. I that's, that's what I love.

Zandra Zuraw 9:30
Yeah, I would, I would sort of describe it for our listeners. I mean, not not to put you in a box at all, but but I would sort of describe it as sort of, it has a New England aesthetic. You know, when you go through those old Quaker homes, you go through those historic homes that have a very simple, everything as simple lines, beautiful but simple and a lot of the honey colored Woods come out and it's very peaceful. That's that's kind of what the vibe that I get from your house. Well, that's nice.

Erin Boyle 9:59
That's what I like to surround myself with, you know, I kind of I love to see the bones of a house I actually was talking to someone fairly recently who said that, you know, oh, well, I live in a I live in like a you know, Brooklyn apartment that's just a mess. And so I have to fill it up with stuff because otherwise you would see, see the light. Never I wish I actually you know, I on one hand, I totally get. On the other hand, I love being able to see that like, molding and the floor. I mean, even though you know, the wood floors in our apartment have been terribly neglected and they're like, really not in the very best shape and they're kind of have this color that's, I don't know, a little bit yellowy orange with it, probably if it was restored nicely, wouldn't be so much that way. But you know, you I like to embrace it and kind of, you know, all of that all of that tells a story. Which is it's the part of kind of home making and decorating a home that I like the best. I love when You can walk into a place and really get a sense of the person but also have questions. I think that that sometimes falls away when you kind of decorate in a court in a more kind of like deliberate and quick way of decorating, I feel like it you lose a bit of like, the story and the questions about things because it's all kind of just been put in there to look a certain way but not to feel a certain way. Make sense? And I love people might ask, you know, like, Where is that table from? Or where did you get that headboard? Or where did that, you know, basket come from? And, you know, for the most part, the answers to those things in my house are kind of I mean, I like to think kind of interesting stories. And that's kind of how I like to approach approach my house even even when it's, you know, tempting to look through a new catalog and say like, Oh, that looks like a comfortable couch. So, you know, there's there's an appeal to something, something new or

Zandra Zuraw 12:01
Just getting it done, you know, you just oh my gosh, that's so much easier. I just point and click on the computer as opposed to going on the hunt. Although Karen and I sounds like just like you I mean, we love that. It's that's so much fun. It's so satisfying when you do finally find that piece. But you're right. There are definitely moments when you just think oh my gosh, I can't, you know, sit at this table. One more second. We need a new table, man. Right? Yeah.

Karen Grant 12:27
Well, one of the things that I'm attracted to about your blog and your book is that my lifestyle is the complete opposite of yours. And, and I mean, not that I'm a hoarder or something but I'm a collector. I love things that have a story. I love decorating my home with those things. And and I love that that even though you are living and promoting the simpler lifestyle, there's still the story behind the things in your life. And, you know, I think so many times when I think of a sort of pared back minimalist lifestyle, I think of no story, no personality sort of just right. You know, kind of white and clean and and

Zandra Zuraw 13:15
almost like sterile Yeah.

Karen Grant 13:16
Exactly. So. So it's really neat. I like that connection that that we have. And I think a lot of people will relate to that. And when they're reading your book, be able Andrew blog be able to, even if they aren't living in a smaller space, or are not able to pare back as much as I have the problem. They're able to take pieces of the ideas that you are living and I think that's really exciting.

Erin Boyle 13:50
Thanks. Yeah, that's that's really nice to hear. I mean, I do think that that's part of the reason why I kind of struggle with the term minimalism is that it feels like it For me, I love the, you know, funny crystal bedside table lamp that I have. But I only want the one like I don't, I don't want 20 where, like there there's more of a collector which I, you know, on one hand, I actually I really understand it. And I have some of those impulses like I too. I'm thinking I'm looking at like another part of my house right now. And I see this little mother of pearl little tiny, like pillowcase that I have belonged to one of my elderly cousins, and she, you know, I have just this one and I love it. But I also know that these like exist in the world. Sometimes, like seeing that, you know, a scene selection of something really appeals to me. It's not necessarily something I want in my own house, but I kind of like knowing that there. And so I mean, I think some of it's like people should be able to live their lives. wrong with collecting or living with a lot of things that you love. But I do think what is the problem is that people often live, you know, in homes that are filled with things that they don't necessarily love. If you are kind of someone that wants to embrace kind of a more, you know, a simplified kind of aesthetic in your home are to really kind of live with the essentials. For me, so much of that is an exercise in identifying what you love, not an exercise in and getting rid of what you love, you know, so like, there's no one I would never sell them one like, well, if you really love all, you know, four of those crystal lamps, just like you can only you know, you should get rid of three and only have the one like, Who cares if you want the four lamps keep them but if there are four crystal lamps that you don't love, you're holding on to them from some kind of sense of obligation of you know, not being wasteful or not getting you know, than being having been passed down to you and needing to keep them or you haven't spent money on them and not wanting to give it away because of that, like, those are the kinds of things that I think if it's not making you happy, like let it go, it's all about recognizing you have control over your space. So if your idea of a space doesn't, you know, your idea of an ideal space doesn't look like what you're currently living. I say like, give yourself permission to say like, what can I change and, and that kind of idea of like taking back some of the control is really, really what it's about more than, you know, living without things for the sake of it.

Zandra Zuraw 16:39
Yeah, I would definitely say that your your book does not come across as a a guide on how to deprive yourself. You know, you you're really not talking about it, but I do think that when people you know, they talk about simplifying, I feel like there is this sort of underlying sense of Okay, now it's like being on a diet you know, I'm going to have to deprive myself of things that I wish that I had Yeah. To be more you know, ecologically minded or to be more you know, to just discipline my my mind my body my soul and and I you your book is so beautiful because you don't come across as preachy but you also don't come across as if you are personally missing something you know, you you truly come across as celebrating and light and loving this home that you've created and you also seem very much in touch with your home. It's it's, it's very much an extension of who you are. And I find that to be particularly interesting in in New York because I lived in there many many years ago, but and but I'm guessing things haven't changed that much. Everyone's apartments are so small, that people go out a lot. You know, they're They're there. The way they express themselves is maybe through their clothing and which bars they're going to go through. And I think it's fascinating and wonderful that here you are living in New York and you're a homebuyer. You know, you don't you're not you know, I love that it's it's possible even in you know, your was 500 square feet.

Erin Boyle 18:23
Yeah, now we have almost 500 Yeah. Almost. Sunday we'll get there. Yeah, I mean, for me, it's actually I guess the opposite like, I feel like in a city like New York, there's a special need to kind of create a sanctuary outside of like the busy city and you know, one of my, the mother of one of my very dear friends came to a book reading of mine and asked a question, which is kind of like stuck with me, but she has a very colorful home. It's just like, filled with vibrant colors and patterns and like it's you know, like, Loud it's like your face guy. Yeah. And she was asking me like your whole, you know, the colors in your home are so neutral, like, do you think that's a reaction to the vibrancy of the city and I'm not sure that that's necessarily necessarily the case. I think I just kind of were in any, whether I was in the city or the country, I kind of just been drawn to neutrals, but in a city, it's especially nice to kind of have a calm, quiet place to return to after you have been, you know, trekking through the East Village or whatever, like, Whoa, sensory overload and then you're kind of climb up to your little mess, you know, and to be able to have a, you know, just a guess safe and, and peaceful retreat.

Zandra Zuraw 19:45
I think you made a point. I think you also made a point somewhere if it was I don't know if it's your blogger book, but something about how because of the fairly neutral palette that you have, when you do use color. It actually really stands out at you Really get to enjoy it like, like the blue in your bed. Yeah,

Karen Grant 20:03
I was just thinking that.

Erin Boyle 20:04
Yeah, totally. I mean, I like to think so. I mean, we actually just, I should say I just this past weekend we found this vintage rag rug this like a made amazing. I'm guessing like 1940s or 50s. But I could be wrong about that just from what I'm kind of like looking at when I get up close and look at the rag. But it's colorful, you know, it's a rag rug. So it's all its blues, and pinks and Maroons. And we put it into fee my daughter's room. And it's for me one it's great because it takes up space in the room. So she can like build her blocks without me saying like the neighbor, the neighbor.

Zandra Zuraw 20:45
Oh, right. That's annoying.

Erin Boyle  20:49
But also, yeah, I mean, it's this kind of like, you know, whatever, to really use an overused word. It's this pop of color. That's just kind of Beautiful and, and cheery and and you know, again in a room that has, you know, a vintage cart and some wooden crates and a wooden bear and a wooden crib like it is this kind of nice juxtaposition. And it's not competing with anything either, which is kind of nice. And then you know, I think also the hardest part for me about living in a city is access to the outdoors and not being able to like, trip through a country Meadow whenever I want to, although we do try to have dinner in the park most nights in warm weather. But, you know, when I do have the chance to bring in natural elements, they too can really kind of shine in a spot that is pared down. You know, it's amazing how much a bouquet like changes the way a space feels, but I feel like that's especially true when the backdrop is relatively simple. I think that human beings to some extent crave order and it's you Nice okay if you so choose it's nice to embrace that. For me it's definitely like a calming practice like having an orderly kind of house makes me feel calm like it's like stress relief

Zandra Zuraw 22:12
for me yeah well we can both relate to that Karen and I you know and you to me we all work from home and so there are times when we I mean I really can't work if if the space is of disaster from say the beach or something I just cannot wrap my head

Erin Boyle  22:30
around I mean, just before I got on this call with you guys, I had to you know, I like just kind of like, sent Fay off of the babysitter and you know, cuz still kind of like wrangling some breakfast cleanup and I like had to do it before because I would not have been able to sit here and paint buttery toast for me.

Karen Grant 22:54
Would you expand a little bit like we love one part of your blog. You have a number of series on your blog, but one of them is called life in a tiny apartment. But I was wondering if you would share maybe a couple of things that you absolutely love. And maybe we've already covered this but that you absolutely love about living in a small space and then maybe a couple of things that, you know, maybe drive you a little bit crazy.

Erin Boyle 23:21
Well gosh, I love the laziness that a small space affords you. I mean, it really lets you be lazier than a large space and i think that you know, it's from being able to literally like sit in bed in the morning and drink coffee while I'm like watching Faye eat her breakfast at her. like doing her morning thing and I can still be like slowly gradually waking up but we're like, you know the kitchen table is, I don't know three and a half feet from the bed. Great. I No, it sounds kind of silly but um, cleaning wise like all of that just it in some ways it really is easier and especially, you know, having a kid. Sure, sometimes there are moments where I'm like, Oh, we are, you know, on top of each other, but most of the time it is this kind of advantage.

Karen Grant 24:19
told this idea to something the other day they're like, okay, you're pushing it, but whenever I go home to my mom and dad's house, I lose my chapstick.

Erin Boyle 24:31
Drives me crazy. And it's because there's like the upstairs bathroom. The downstairs like, where does it put it? There's all these places it could be. I always end up with chapped lips. I never know with chapped lips in my own apartment because it's just right there next to me all the time.

Karen Grant 24:45
Okay, that is hilarious.

Erin Boyle 24:46
I love that. I do think that there are these kind of advantages of a small space.

Zandra Zuraw 24:51
Well, and I have to tell you, both of us having kids who are older, we know from experience, they want to be with you. You know, it's You know we have these houses and we have play rooms or you know spare rooms for the for the kids and it's like they're never there they want to be with you. So you know what you might you might as well not worry about the fact that you are on top of each other because I you would be an AI right I have a 14 year old now so he's the oldest of the children between Karen and I and he's just starting to kind of be in his own space. But he would still be fine if we were sharing a space to you know, I mean, it just takes a long time before they they they don't want to have you

Erin Boyle 25:36
noticed that in that you know, we in when Fayetteville 18 months old we been all three of us in the same bedroom and our bed out into this main room hence the proximity to the kitchen table and family now has the bedroom and even that like it she does not play in her room she played in the main room.

Karen Grant 25:58
Right, right. Well You know, and I don't live in a huge house, I live in a 1300 square foot house, which I think by American standards is fairly small. There's only three of us though my husband and my son and myself. And so it's a good size for us. And I've always liked I mean, you know, we have a small kitchen. I'd love for it to be a tiny bit bigger, but wouldn't mind a small kitchen if it was thoughtfully laid out? Yeah, ours is just it. It just doesn't function and, and we've been living with it for 15 years. And actually, my husband is going to redo it this summer. And, you know, the actual footprint of the space isn't going to be that much larger. We're taking out a small powder room. But the, you know, the way it's laid out is going to work a lot better and so I'm excited about that. But it's it's still not going to be an Eden space. And so we regularly Well, let's say we regularly use our dining room. We actually Eat on the coffee table all the time. The truth comes out, but, but I love that, you know, we have one living space, a living room, not a living room and a family room and we have one eating space. It never ends up getting us. So we actually spend a tremendous amount of time in like a couple hundred square feet of our house. And, and it's, you know, it's sort of funny, you know, I'd love to have a guest room, which I don't have. So there's, you know, there's things on the wish list. But the reality is, is that, you know, before us in this house, this house is over 100 years old, but the family before us raise three children in this house. And so much has changed over the last generation in needing these magnificently large spaces. And so,

Erin Boyle 27:52
right now, I think about just New York and kind of the history of the architecture here. I mean, we live in the top floor of a brownstone And that was surely a single family house. So I want them to you know, and we are definitely in like, the Garret, you know, we're like me. But the so there's that kind of fascinating kind of architecture that then was, you know, separated into nine apartments. But then across the river before my sister moves, she was in an apartment in the East Village, you know, a tenement building, with this little railroad apartment that was tiny, smaller than this apartment. And, you know, when it was built that would have housed a family with multiple generations and the cottage industry knows. Right, right. There's all these like, you know, different ways of living in spaces and the way that that changes. And I don't know, I just think it's fascinating to kind of look at all of the different ways that your life can. Yeah, you know, that your living space can can be used and that your life can kind of unfold. I was just talking with someone about the loft and you knew it was this storage This happens in a lot of new york apartments where they're built is kind of storage Lofts, because you're not technically supposed to call them bedrooms. But the idea really is that they make a space more livable, you can put a bed up there. But then you can't like stand up next to your bed, you know, and there's like, sure, there's a kind of romance of like, oh, scampering up the ladder to bed. I had, like, my little cousins came and saw it, and they like, of course loved it, like a dream, you know. But the reality is, like, it was challenging on a day to day basis, like, it kind of sucks to climb. You know, like, and so though, that kind of small space stuff was definitely a different level of small space. Some of the small space stuff. I just think it's interesting because it kind of speaks to the adaptability of like human beings. It's just kind of cool. Like, oh, we can do this. We don't need to live in, you know, a 2500 square foot house to have one.

Zandra Zuraw 29:59
It's impossible. I feel like it's empowering because it It forces you to be creative. And then I think you feel good about yourself when you problem solve. Totally agree.

Erin Boyle 30:10

Karen Grant 30:11
I'm feeling sort of inspired. I'm not moving into a 500 square foot apartment, but I feel inspired.

Zandra Zuraw 30:20
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we It's fun. It's all relative, right? I mean, the fact that we Karen and I both have pretty small homes by modern standards, I guess. And we're perfectly happy. I did have the I was very, very fortunate when we lived in Pennsylvania for a while and we lived in a beautiful row home that was built in like 1870 something and I had been I had actually moved from a 500 square foot studio apartment that I was living in all by myself in Chicago when we moved to Pennsylvania. And so this thing was, I don't know 1600 square feet and I thought I had moved into a mansion. I mean, I just remember walking up and down the stairs going, I can't believe all of this is ours. And then and we lived there for, I think eight years. And I loved every single detail about the house that just had all of this wonderful history. And then for some reason, we had our first kid and I was pregnant with our second and I, I got it in my head. This isn't enough space, we have to move. And I think it was born to you know, I do like change. Living in one place for eight years was really unusual for me. And so I just think I needed a change in where we lived was very ridiculously affordable. So we got I think it was like a 2400 square foot house. It was very big. And within a few months, I I got to really experience deep down what it felt like to live in a place that was too interesting. Yeah, it just, it was just too much space. It was way too much to take care of. All of our money was now tied up in the house and we had to furnish I mean, you know, we've never enough furniture for 2400 square foot house. So I love that then when we moved up to the Boston area, we were downsizing, it was so exciting to me to go from bigger to smaller. And I'm so glad I had that experience because I think that if I hadn't, I would always keep assuming that bigger was better, and that that would make me feel better. Right. And now I know for sure that it didn't Of course, I had to remind myself that even though we were downsizing or, you know, we were downsizing, but our mortgage was upsetting because we're moving to Boston, but that took me a while to put that together. That was that was

Erin Boyle  32:37
you. Yeah, I mean, I do think it's interesting. I think we get caught up in this kind of cycle of feeling like we need more and I think especially we live in a culture right now where that is related to being parents and having children is like it's out of control a little bit like I it's been so notice Since you know now and almost a veteran parent of two year,  you know, lots of authority on this topic. But you know, I do think it's kind of interesting how there's absolutely the number one topic of conversation around expecting a child is not about parenting or about giving birth or about, you know, accepting a newborn into your home, however that happens or whatever it's about stuff. It's about, what do you need? What are you going to get? Have you tried this Have you? How many strollers Are you going to get? Which kind of stroller? Are you going to get all of this? And it's totally overwhelming, I think.

Zandra Zuraw 33:47
Yeah, because there's so many

Erin Boyle 33:47
choices, so many choices. And I think it creates this kind of idea that you do need more space because you need all of these things. And I have found in my own experience, it's like It is so empowering to say like, yep, I'm gonna opt out of it. I'm just not, I'm not gonna do it. And, you know, we survived those few months of infancy without like a bouncy swing, like who I mean, and I'm not saying that that's like, and therefore, you know, I don't know, I like earn a medal or anything, but I didn't want to buy a bouncy swing and have it in my house and feel like I needed more space to

Zandra Zuraw 34:28
how was that bouncy swing or whatever. Again, I just want to bring back this this point, though, is that you are not choosing to for instance, not have a bouncy swing out of some sort of moral stance or your your your choices are coming, as you've said, because you want to control your situation, and they make you happy. And I think that that is so important, and that's what we like about your book. And that's why we wanted to have you on the podcast because it's It's really about happiness. And it's really about creating an aesthetic and a home life that that fulfills you. And for you it's it's this particular way of living and that that's the bottom. Yeah,

Erin Boyle 35:16
totally. I mean, I think that's, that's exactly it. It's like we have a right to be happy in our homes, whether that's because you're surrounded by a collection of antique dolls, or you, you know, want it to be pared down like, yeah, I think the question of whether it's a lot of stuff is less important than, like finding your groove and being happy with it.

Karen Grant 35:40

Zandra Zuraw 35:41
Well, thank you so much. We, yes. Well, we were looking at the clock going, Oh, my gosh, we've kept you over but we've really enjoyed this conversation. So we but we do want to be mindful of your time. But it's been delightful to talk to you you're just such a warm, lovely It really comes through in your book and we we are excited to share it. Thank you so

Erin Boyle 36:05
much. I'm just so glad that we were able to work this out. And it really it was so nice to talk to you guys. I can't wait to share the piece with everyone you know.

Zandra Zuraw 36:14
Well, all right, thank you so much for hanging out with me today. It's wonderful to have you here. And if you've liked what you've heard, please rate us on Apple podcasts or iTunes. It really does make a huge difference. It helps other home obsessed people find us and it helps keep us on the air. Also, don't forget to take the quiz. What's the number one mistake you are making in your home over at little yellow I will be back next week and in the meantime, take care

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