How To Apply Color Psychology to our Homes with Mehnaz Khan

Uncategorized Jan 04, 2021
 
 
My guest today is Mehaz Khan.  She's a color psychology specialist and talks with us today about choosing color from the perspective of how it will affect our behavior, via our emotions.  She's very much invested in her client's mental and emotional health, and understands the connection between those aspects of who we are and the environments we create for ourselves.  Let's jump in.  
 
👉🏻We mentioned about my Masterclass “Turn Your Bedroom into a Sleep-Inducing Environment” in the recording , if someone is interested they can hop on the waitlist here - new Masterclass in Jan
👉🏻 They can also download my free e-guide “The Best Color for Your Home”
 
Episode Transcript:
Hello, happy new year And welcome to the Style. Matters Podcast brought to you by little yellow couch. I'm Zandra your host. And I am so glad you're here. You're listening to a show that is all about developing your signature style in your home and connecting that to the life you want to create. And what better time to get started with that then at the beginning of a fresh new year.

So I hope you'll join me in my first ever new year's challenge called resolutions to Results. It starts January 11th, which by the way, is next Monday a week from today, or whenever you're listening to this, if it's after January 11th, I am so sorry, but we will probably be doing more challenges in the future. So you'll just have to wait.

But if you're listening to this before January 10th, go sign up, stop what you're doing right now. Go sign up. You just have to type in little yellow couch.com and then click the January challenge button at the top of that page. All right. So what is this challenge all about? Okay. So over the next five days, starting January 11th, I'm going to guide you through a series of exercises and that that will help you set up your goals for the year like resolutions.

But this time we're going to connect them to the spaces in your homes that when you set them up the right way will help you achieve those goals. Yay. I'm so excited. All right. It shouldn't take you more than 15 minutes, maybe a half an hour to complete the little worksheets that I have for you every day. Or you can get a journal and write in the beautiful journal.

There'll be a private Facebook group where you can get help from me and from each other. And Oh, there are prizes. Yeah, there are prizes. Cause I want to make this super fun. Let me give you the details. One more time. Go to little yellow couch.com. Sign up by clicking the yellow January challenge button right at the top.

And yes, it's free, but you do have to sign up no later than January 10th. So get going. All right. All right. On with today's episode, it's the first episode of 2021. And I am excited just to be saying those words because 2020, whew. It has been really awful for some of us and just kind of bad for the rest of us.

But if you are someone who has lost a friend or a family member or has lost their job, my heart goes out to you. 2020 has been an nightmare for the rest of us. 2020 has been scary and intense and lonely. And even over the top boring because we've had to our lives on hold. And we still don't quite know when we're going to get our lives back.

But for today for at least 30 minutes, I'm about to pull back the curtains, the metaphorical curtains, and bring some color into your world. And that is because my guest today is Menez con she's a color psychology specialist. And she talks with us about choosing color from the perspective of how it will affect our behavior via our emotions. She is very much invested in her client's mental and emotional health.

And she understands the connection between those aspects of who we are and the environments we create for ourselves. So let's just jump in Mahnaz Khan. Welcome to the Style Matters Podcast I'm so glad that we have found each other. Great. Well, I really want to start out with your, your story and how you got to where you are today and what you're doing professionally,

because it has a very, you have a very personal reason, I think for getting into this whole world of design and color more particularly. So if you don't mind, I, it sounded to me when I was reading about you, that you had a bit of a tough time, especially emotionally, when you first became a mom, and I know you are not alone in this.

So I think it would help other people, if you would share with us where you are at mentally, especially at that time, and what got you interested in color, what, what did, what did that have to do with where you are when you were a new? Okay, so I'm glad you mentioned that we're not alone in this, so it's really important to share it.

And this is why I've started sharing my story. Because even though this is not so long ago, it was 13 years ago. When I first embraced motherhood, this topic is kind of a taboo, not everybody talked about it. So the impression that I got was everybody has a life together, their game together. They're perfect. And maybe I'm the one who's struggling,

right? But the reality is this is tough. This is tough. Everybody's struggled. Motherhood is top. And if you're young and first kid no experience, it is tough for everybody. So it's okay. If you let people know it was hard, but you will get through it. And it's all right. So that's what I learned. This is why I like to share my story.

So 30, I just interject real quick. I think there's this sort of, there's this picture out there of the, the happy mom, she beautiful baby. And the sunlight's coming through the window and they're holding, you know, she's holding her beautiful new baby, and there's just a glow of happiness about her. And you feel guilty if you don't feel Exactly you do,

you do. And you feel like there's something wrong with me. I'm the only one not doing it. Right? Yeah. Yeah. That's true. So 13 years ago, that's when I first embraced motherhood and we were in an, I had an arranged marriage. I was living with Disney, a person who I really did not know. And then I was expecting,

I was young. We, so my husband is a physician and he had just gotten his residency will be moved into a brand new tile. That's new, his job's new every, I mean everything. Yeah. Yeah. His dad is new and his job is, you know, if you know about residency, profit's a very challenging job emotionally and physically.

So yeah, I did not. We did not even get to spend time to know each other. And then, then there was this new baby and what do I do? And I was like, you know, my pops used to be like, okay, so I have this baby. I can't even return it. We get so used to return.

Like even him and I had no family. And we lived in Buffalo, New York at that time, if anybody doesn't know, that's the Niagara falls area, it's gloomy eight months out of the year. It's cold. It's a, it's a bad weather. It's a depressing weather. So that added to it. So I learned the mistake that I was making with thinking that design was it's about looks.

Whereas what changed my life was in deciding the simple fact, that environment impact your behavior. And when I started using the support of my environment, my life changed, my relationships changed. I was able to overcome anxiety as a matter of health and seasonal depression. Okay. Yeah. Well, I want to talk about that too, but, but paint me a picture you're sitting around,

you've got this new baby. The outside is Boomi. Your husband is not able to be around much. And what were you looking at around your walls and, and, and feeling the impact of a negative environment. I wasn't thinking about it at that time. And that's the problem. And if you don't have the awareness, you can't point what is wrong.

But now when I know I go back and look, we were, we moved into this new two bedroom apartment and yes, it was all white walls and we didn't have a lot of furniture. So there wasn't a lot of colors. You know, my thing is color is main thing color. So there wasn't much happening and it was not intentional, whatever it was,

there was not intentional. And you asked me this question, so we'll get into this later on. But yes, I had brought in color, but it was not intentional. Ah, okay. You were trying, you knew you needed to try something, but it, yeah. I mean, I think when we first try, right, we're gonna going to be a lot of misses.

Yeah. So where did this awareness come from? Do you think that you needed to change your environment? So somewhere I read about the third part of the law of attraction. Okay. So there are two parts of the law of attraction. It's your mindset, it's your destiny to these two parts everybody's aware of the third is if your environment is not in alignment with your subconscious,

the shift is not happening. So what that means is that I want to be happy from inside. I want to be a happy person with my environment is telling a completely different story. It's creamy, it's sad, it's boring. It's depressing because the shift is not happening. And then I researched this way more. And then of course, now I've been researching this for a few years.

So it's scientifically speaking. Your environment is constantly sending data. Whatever is in your surroundings is sending a message to your brain and your subconscious mind is processing that. So now what I help my clients do is we start, we reverse engineer. We start with where you want to be. And then we create an environment to match that. So when you're in your space,

you don't have to put that effort that motivation or willpower to be happy, the colors in your environment are going to help do that because it's automatic dates. So, you know, you're absorbing it. You're thinking about it now you're absorbing that message from the environment. Okay. That that's so juicy. So before we jump further, that way, talk to us about the second sort of storyline,

I guess, of in your background, you've got, you know, you had probably some postpartum depression going on and you didn't know it at first. And then I don't know when in your life, this, this sort of really reared its head, but you, you finally realized that you had been living with seasonal affective disorder. Correct? So when I realized that it was hot,

seasonal, effective disorder, winter blues, and seasonal depression, it took me eight years and a shift and move to Florida to understand that that's what was going on. And because, so when we moved to Florida that year, I didn't have it. When, you know, winter came the fall season, it starts on a way to understand that you have seasonal depression.

It starts around the same time every year around October. And it goes up to March and April. And that time of the year, you're just feeling very low and the rest of the year, you're fine. So it didn't happen that year. And that's how I also remember my husband is a physician. We were not on that topic there. Okay.

So that's another thing about seasonal depression. Now, then I've educated myself so much. And then my husband and I have had conversations. So by speaking to people, I can tell that they're going through the winter blues, but they don't know themselves. Like I did not know it. So that's one tricky part of I'm sad that you're not aware unless,

you know, somebody tells you, but once you're aware, then you can figure it out and you can work around it. Right? And or you can end end. Then what you do now with your whole life is, is try to help people really create an environment that then supports their mental health. You know, it's one example of what you do.

So let's, let's keep talking about that a little bit. I want to hear about the psychology of color and also what, what would it, what does it mean to work with someone such as yourself? Who's a color, a color Consulta to have a color consultation. What does that mean? So in simple words, in layman language, the psychology of color,

it is understanding the colors have meaning and they influence our behaviors and our emotions. So that being said to work with a, what is that definition clear? Well, so, so give us a few examples to explain what red or yellow or blue kind of does to us. Okay. So I want to go a little bit more in the scientific details.

So light the color is basically just a phenomena. You can even say, there, there is no such thing as color. It's a phenomena. So it's light color is light. And when light reflected wavelength of light enters your eye, your eye takes that message and sends it to your brain. And depending on the wavelength, which is a number that's entered,

there is a chemical reaction that happens in your brain. And then that's how you're being recognized. But it's a certain color it's blue or it's yellow. So it's, it's very, it's not just visual, there's a lot happening. And that is why. And all of this happens in that part of the brain where our hormones are processes our entire indoctrine system and metabolism,

appetite, emotions, everything. So that is what different colors trigger different emotions. So the coolers are in the same. Let me just make sure I understand this. You're saying the w the place in our brains where we process color is the same place where our emotions live, but also things like our appetite and our metabolism, like the, the, the,

the, really the things that make us tick. Yes, yes, yes. That's exactly right. And so then if I'm going to have a color consultation, what would happen? Like what, what happens in one of those? So to understand this, why do you work with the nutritionist? The nutritionist does not come and tell you what your favorite food is.

The nutritionist is going to come and tell you what's good for your body, and what's not good for your body, or what are your body's needs. So every person is different. If I go to the doctor, he's not going to prescribe me the same medicine he prescribed you. Or even if he does the dose is going to be different, right?

So when you go to a color psychology specialist, I'm having to tell you what your favorite color is. I'm going to look at. You needs the purpose and very, very important it's. This is what is it? Little bit different from interior design is we're focusing on behaviors, not on the mood to mood is a very surface level feeling. We're going deep down and focusing on behaviors.

Now we don't feel mood. It's not tangible. You see somebody's behavior. You know, when your kid is, there's something wrong, they're cranky. How do you know that they they're crying or shouting pulling their hair or stomping or something like that. That's how you know, by looking at their behavior or what sort of mood they are. And so what the focus is on behavior.

That's how you recognize if the space is working for you in that. And then I will match colors that are going to help you support that purpose of your space with behaviors. Like you want to be productive in your office. So we're going to look for colors that are not going to distract you, call us that are going to inspire you. That are going to push your creativity,

the colors that are going to be mentally stimulating, the colors that are going to help you with focus and concentration. And are, is it roughly the same color for everyone for those behaviors, or is someone, is for one person, yellow means something completely different. So it can be a little bit, but what's more important here is that there's so many yellows.

We know that, right? So there is this really clear, bright, warm yellow. There is a blue, yellow, and there's this to the yellow. So that is where it gets really tricky. So I wouldn't come in recommend like, okay, you need a yellow, because I need to work on understanding your personality type to know which yellow you belong to.

Is it Second? Cause that was my, that was my kind of followup question was I'm guessing that you're not going to say, well, red is the answer. If you want X behavior, I'm sure it's more subtle than that. And you just said, so it's like, well, it's more subtle than that because of all the different shades of red flags.

Exactly. Just like going back to my example in doctors, not going to tell you, you just need Iran or them. And D if you come and tell him the sentence, they're going to get blood work done, do you need to go into detail? And then the dose changes. So these are the different doses. The different shades of yellow can be the different doses.

And then we work to find out which yellow is right for you. Now, I'm sure you've heard this, that you have the yellow couch. People say, I don't like yellow, yellow doesn't work for me. I like literally hate yellow, but that means you're looking at the wrong tone of yellow. There is a yellow out there for you. You just haven't found the right yellow for you.

Oh, and that's so good to hear, because I do think that the, the subtlety in, in shade and in tone to me, it's such a beautiful thing because I love interior so much. And so, you know, I, I, I mean, years ago I would challenge myself. If I thought purple was one of the colors I thought I hated.

And I would challenge myself to find a purple that I loved and I could, because there are so, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's true. Okay. Manasseh, I want to talk about fear of color for a second, because I hear this all the time. When it comes to choosing a bold color, whether for walls or furniture,

people will say, they're afraid of putting a stake in the ground and choosing that one specific color, because it's going to limit them in the future. And you said it perfectly on your website when you were describing where you used to be, which was stuck in the rut of well, beige goes with everything. So that's why I'm going to keep choosing it now.

Okay. I guess that's a valid concern, but is there something underneath that fear and how can we stop worrying about that? That I don't know that that will get tired of a particular color or just afraid that it will clash, or I don't know. There's something about bold colors that people really shy away from. Yeah. I love that question. That's such an important question.

And the most, I think the number one thing is why I did that. It was lack of awareness. I did not know the power of colors and what they can do for me. So, you know, that's why I'm stuck with this thing, that it will go with everything. And then, like you said, when I need to change things,

it will go with everything. The other one is, yes, people do have this fear why they don't want to put the stake in the ground where the bold colors actually be the fear of getting it wrong. So that is definitely there. And the other thing was, do I need to change my decor all the time. So when you get it done,

right. And I didn't mention earlier, you asked me about my consultation process. So my consultation passes. It's very different. It's not like I'm going to ask somebody to build a Pinterest board, and then I'm going to see what looks like. There's Style we don't talk about that. All we don't talk about the colors. We don't talk about the design side.

I am going to do like deep work and figure out your personality types. So it's like a Myers-Briggs test kind of approach. I need to understand your human behavioral patterns. And once I know that there is, it can be matched with the mathematical correlation of colors. So when you go that deep, right, when you go that deep, the need to constantly change,

your decor is over. You don't need to change the Decker because you're in that space, which is in alignment with your true personality type. And so the need is over. So the fact is just like you were mentioning that there's deeper need when people are constantly changing your decor, it's a sign that there's something big going on. Why do you need to always bring new things in there's something not working.

It's not in alignment with your personality. And I think I want to mention here also in the say your home is a reflection of you. Do you, do people know who they are? That's a very, most people don't know. It's a very crucial question. Most people don't know. We always aspire to be somebody else I did. I'm sure you did.

We all try to be somebody else. And that's what happens. Our spaces mostly reflect that. And then this is why it's just like saying, do you, your home should reflect you, but you need, we really need to know who you are as a person, like deep down. Well, and I think what happens a lot. Cause I,

I, I feel like this is one of my mantras. You got to know what you love and why you, what you love and why not? What no, what somebody else loves and not what looks good in the magazines. But I do think that it's one thing to say that, and it's actually not always that easy to do, because you've got to really process a lot about yourself.

I think to answer that question, I agree. It's not easy. It's definitely not easy, but once it's done, right, it's miraculous. Okay. So we're getting, we're getting into the thick of it here. And I wondered if we could get into so some examples. So one of the things that you've said is, is that we should decorate in a way that reflects the kind of behavior we want to exhibit and that color can actually help us live with more consciousness.

What do you mean by this? How many times have you bought, brought in a new color in your home by thinking about the influence of that color? Most people are thinking about how it looks, right? So is it on trend? Is it looking good? Is everybody else going to like it? What are other people going to say about it?

Is it the color of the year? How many times do you think, what is the influence or the meaning of this color? What is it going to do to my emotions and my thinking and my feelings in my house. So that is a part of living consciously living with intention. Okay. Can you give us some examples? So a big one that I get asked a lot about is,

is it Again, you want to go back to the board and look at the purpose of your space. What is the purpose of your bedroom? So I do a master class, which is specifically focused on creating a scheme and using an environment. Good one, because a lot of people struggle with sleep. Yes. In this master class, we talk about what are the things that need to happen for somebody to go to sleep.

You want your mind to slow down. So you want something that's mentally calming. Then you want a physical aspects that you want physically soothing colors. And then when you wake up in the morning, we don't want you waking up sluggish and lazy. We want you to be energized. So we need some bright colors, some stimulating colors to support that, but then that's a small portion.

So propulsion is also key. Okay. In terms of the mix of colors. Yes. So we are going to have a mix of colors, for sure. And again, scientifically, this is, we're looking at the visible spectrum of light and we're mixing longer wastelands in shorter wavelength. That is how we say you create the balance in your space. Hm.

Okay. And what about something like a kitchen? Because let's just talk about trends for a minute. Kitchen trends are, I feel like kitchens are one of those rooms where the trends change, the quickest, which I don't really understand because that's one of the rooms where it's most expensive to make changes on a regular basis, right? Painting a wall, repainting a wall in your living room is a lot cheaper than switching out your cabinets or even just repainting all of your cabinets,

for example. So what, what kind of behaviors would you be hoping to encourage us to develop in our kitchens and then sort of what color kind of scheme or palette would help with that? I love that question. I love that question. So kitchen is people don't focus on a specific behavior when they're in the kitchen. And I think the only thing people talk about is gathering around the Island and having chitchats and family time.

So kitchen really kitchen has those behaviors. It's so, so, so important. I think my kitchen trends change a lot is because people come and gather and lots of people are looking at the kitchen. Your guests are coming up. So they're updating that. So it again goes back to the behaviors and the purpose of the space. If you want to cook well,

if you want to enjoy this process and cook a delicious meal, then we'll the magical us for that. So cooking is a physical activity. It's not a mental activity. And Zandra, you're telling me here, when you're really involved in a mental activity, like when you were younger and you were taking your exam during walking and you sometimes forget to have your lunch,

your food, right? So that's a mental activity. When walking the mental activity, you forgot about the food. So you want to keep this mentally stimulating colors away. And this is a big trend in kitchen that I see all the time and then complain. It's blue using blue in kitchen. Speaking about the psychological influences, the wrong color, because that's a mentally stimulating color,

especially the dark blue kitchens we get to see. And you will also notice that that kitchen, you will not be cooking. You will not be the best cook cook cook, and your appetite will also be effected. And I'll share another example of that. So the good colors in the kitchen would be physically stimulating colors, energizing colors, which is a red,

orange juice, even yellow. And then again, these are colors. You won't do a lot, a little bit sprinkles of red. Some, I have some red in my kitchen, which is like, my kitchen aid is red. My white mix is red. So things like those. I have a lot of red like spoon holder and that kind of red pops up red all over and where we are in the process of building a new house.

And I have two then dark green kitchen cabinets. Green is more of the supportive polar it's again, it's the, it's the middle wave lens. So you don't want to go beyond that. You don't want to go into blues and purples. They're going to kill your appetite. So green. And then with red, if I do all red, like red cabinets will be too stimulating,

but red will again stimulate your appetite. Now go back and think in nature, the red suits, the greens you eat, they're all. Appetising they make your food look delicious. They make you hungry. All right. Well, just a little side note here. I, as you were talking, I recently, I don't know, maybe a year ago,

I guess painted our kitchen cabinets for the millionth time, because I love painting, but this time I chose this very dark green dark it's it's it's saturated green. Okay. It's not pesto. And it I'm just curious. Now I have been on this cooking spree. I thought maybe it was because of COVID, but it's it's when we first had the lockdown and we couldn't go to the grocery store,

but it has continued, even though now we can go to the grocery store more freely. I've always liked to cook, but I have been on this extended spree of loving to cook. And I don't know, maybe my green kitchen cabinets have something to do with it. I don't doubt it at all. I've also chosen the dark, like an Emeril,

dark saturated green for our new kitchen. But then again, everybody doesn't need to do that. If you choose in green, you have to find out your green some bit, some people will work with more of like a Sage green or meet the green. It's your personality type. It's not my personality types of dark. What is, what is the right word?

Like an Emerald green or Ruby red. Those are the colors that resonated with my personality type. But you have to find your perfect shade of green, green with a combination of some red and orange. And then you can do whites also. It's perfect. You, you make it sound like this cool mystery that we have to solve. What's migraine. I love that.

I love that. Oh my gosh. All right. So I want to wrap up by asking you, if you could leave us with your best piece of advice, what, what is the first step someone can make toward bringing more color into their homes to getting past that? If they're feeling stuck with beige, actually this isn't even going to be my last questions.

Cause you said something earlier that we can talk about putting little air quotes around the word neutral. So I want to make sure we don't forget that. So do you want to start there, but then maybe let's wrap up with you telling us how do we, how do we beyond our fear of color? Sure. So yes, that mutual thing is really interesting.

So there is no such thing as a neutral, neutral color. So there's no such thing as mutual color. And here's why every color has its a reflected. We have love the plight, right? So it has a number, every color triggers an emotion in your mind. So there's no such thing as neutral. The base is going to trigger a certain emotion.

The white is going to trigger another emotion. The gray is going to trigger something else. The black is going to trigger something else, the tope and all these colors. So when you say mutual, if you look at the definition of neutral, it's not neutral because it is doing something in your mind and your body emotion, wise feelings, white parts and behavior lights.

I'm not saying that don't use wise or don't use told. So black mutual is just a term and maybe in design and in color theory, but in psychology, if there is nothing neutral because everything has a meaning and everything has an influence. And let me give you another example, and I know you mentioned examples is easier for to understand. So what does all white space do for you?

It reminds, it always reminds me of the white pad itself in the psychiatric hospitals, which were, which are patents. So the acute patients do and hurt themselves. And if they tried to hit themselves on the wall, but they're also intentionally all white, the floor, the ceiling, the walls, everything is white. And that is a very intentional and strategic because it's emotionally draining.

So it's going to drain the patient's energy. So they don't try to attempt to hurt themselves physically. So that's, that's very purposeful. And that is eventually, if you have so much weight in your space, that's how you will start feeling. Now you can call it that I'm cocooning, I'm isolating, but then you want to look at other things,

do you need to isolate? Maybe there's a big problem in your life and you're running away from it and you're isolating yourself. Or maybe it's just, you're stuck in that isolation and you need something else to come out of it. So color choices, your color choices do indicate something deeper, something, a desire or something that's missing in your life. Yeah,

this is so interesting. So it sounds like what you're saying is that the, the, the optimal environment has a balance of color across the spectrum. And you are talking about helping people find out what the right balance is for them, their particular life situation, maybe what's going on with them, their health, definitely what's going on with them emotionally, as opposed to saying,

Oh, you know, neutral's bad and bold colors are good. Exactly. And then if somebody's coming from a point where they're an all neutral space, we will slowly start increasing their dose. Just like your doctor, wouldn't start you with the high dose slowly. So you're not like, Oh, you're not overwhelmed because there is something that is, there is something called too much color also.

And then again, going back to those emotions too much color means too many emotions. Another way to look at this, all neutral is like I just said that it is equal to every color is equal to an emotion. So it's not natural for us human beings to live in one state of emotion. Right. It's similar to, when I talk about from a design perspective that we have different aspects to our personalities and therefore trying to have an,

a whole home color palette or a whole home sort of design theme or thread. I, I do think it's helpful when one room kind of flows into the other, but every room has a different purpose and, and it, and it sort of encourages a different aspect of who we are. So trying to make it all the same throughout your entire home is probably not,

not good. And, and you're saying that it, the same thing, but more from a color theory perspective. Yes. All right. Let, let let's, let's get to that final question, which is what, what is the first step someone can make to bring more color into their home, to get over that fear? My simple advice would be to look in nature and take your cues from nature.

That's the easiest and safest way to do it. Working out in nature is going to work in your life. Again, we're going to be looking at nature. Blue does not exist in food, so don't make your food blue, but the same rule applies to your household. So what is calming look at? What, what do you do on a gray day on a green teaming day now in the Northeast Lake,

we were reliving, it was raining all day yesterday, today. How do you feel on a gray day Sleeping, like pulling the covers up over me and not getting out of bed. Exactly. This is what will happen when you have your whole house painted gray. That's it? Period. I'm sorry, period. Yeah, that's it. So take your cues from nature,

how it feels on a great day, how it feels during the spring, the greens, how refreshing they are when you're in nature, when you're eating salad. So all the answers are there. Oh, I love that piece of advice. And also, I mean, I, I love using nature as a guide for mixing colors because mother nature knows how to mix colors better than anybody.

And you're bringing that emotional kind of side to things too with color. So this whole conversation has been about that connection. It's been great. Thank you. Thank you. Well, I think you've really opened our eyes to the possibilities here of, of what color can do for us and how we are probably not utilizing color the way we can be. I agree.

And that's one thing that I would like everybody to take away from this conversation is there's so much possibility. And like you just said, mother nature has done the work for you. Why, why are we trying to lean in when the wheel? Yeah, Well, minnows, this has been such a fun conversation. Thank you so much. Give us the name of your website so that we can find you.

And of course I'll also have links to it on our show notes page. Sure. You can find me anywhere with manna con studio on Instagram, Facebook, or on my website. Terrific. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for listening. I hope that you are as inspired by our guests as I am.

And if you are, I have a huge favor to ask, which is to please go over to Apple podcasts and leave us a review. It really, really does make a difference in helping people find our show. People just like you, who are passionate about their homes. And second of all, don't forget to sign up for the January challenge resolutions to Results go do it right now because it's closing the registration is closing on January 10th.

We're going to start January 11th. It's free. It's going to be so much fun. I would love to have you join me. I will talk to you later. Be back in your earbuds next week.

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